Boycott AG? For or Against and why...

**moderator** · December 17th, 2005, 03:31 AM

Regarding the boycott?

I wrote a letter to AG letting them know I would not purchase anything until the relationship with Girls, Inc. had ended. I am very glad to see that it is likely ending.

Sadly, I don't think Christian organizations are entirely innocent in this. By signing a petition online, I was signed up to more than one mailing list I had not asked to be signed up to. I have been trying for weeks to get off them. Ironically, the petition e-mail didn't work and bounced back to me, so all that accomplished was getting me signed up to a bunch of lists (consequently, I snail-mailed AG).

Even more upsetting, Christian organizations are claiming credit for the Save Girlhood campaign! They say that due to the boycott, AG started Save Girlhood in order to prove that they are family-friendly.

As AG fans we know this program has been around since early October. Not only that, but the website was registered back in August. And you have to take into consideration that AG had to come up with the concept and publish the book long before they released it.

It bothers me that the organizations that organized the boycott are using Save Girlhood as a means to say the boycott worked and Save Girlhood is because of them. Why am I sad? Because I'm a conservative Christian, and I don't think I'm being represented correctly. In my opinion, it?s only going to make Christians look silly to AG to claim credit for this. Isn?t it more likely that Save Girlhood--which has been around at least since summer 2005--has nothing to do with a boycott that only recently started? Does anyone know when the boycott started?

I was wondering what you all thought of this as well. I know I can?t post it on the other board, so I thought it might be an interesting discussion for this one.

[ December 16, 2005 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]

**carolinapooh** · December 17th, 2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by kitschywoman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> There are several companies I will not purchase from for various reasons myself.

Good for you, Cleo. I am into physical fitness, but I decided not to go to Curves when I learned that a portion of their proceeds goes to support pro-life organizations. Instead, I chose Jazzercise, and what a great choice it was. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I live in an urban environment and see first-hand the conditions that some children have to live in and the obstacles they face. If Girls, Inc. can help these underprivileged girls become smarter and more self-confident, well, then more power to them. These girls will need all the coping skills they can get to help them conquer an environment that tries to hold them back on a daily basis.<hr /></blockquote>Well said, Anne.

I am Christian, and find the whitewashing of Christmas no less disgusting than do many of you here.

I also lived three years in Saudi Araiba, and know what it is like to have one religion crammed down your throat. Once you've been literally followed around the mall by the religious police for doing absolutely nothing except not having your head covered (which by law you're not even MEANT to do since you're NOT Muslim), and they make buying socks in JCPenney impossible, you see things a bit differently.

I have friends at work of all religions. I tell them "Happy Holidays" because I want them to know that I am thinking about them during MY Christmas celebrations. I wouldn't dream of saying "Merry Christmas", because they won't - that is, you won't have a merry holiday that you don't celebrate to start with.

I have a Muslim friend that is always impressed when I wish her Happy Ramadan or Eid Mubarak. It means that I care about her and hope she enjoys her holidays.

By the same token, she sent me an e-card the other day that said "I hope you have a happy Christmas". And we both feel all warm and fuzzy about it.

I respect others' views and decisions. But I'm United Methodist - half Catholic and half Baptist, my father used to say I split it down the middle - and I believe "judge not lest ye be judged".

I can't bring myself to judge my other friend at work for her lifestyle; she is lesbian. And she is WONDERFUL and ADORES AG. She's an oncology nurse who has touched many many lives; she's an incredible person.

How could God condemn her?

**carolinapooh** · December 17th, 2005, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Voice-of-Reason:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tra:
Voice-of-Reason--God is eternal. Nobody had to create Him, for He always was. Time is a man-made concept. God is outside of time. He IS the beginning and the end. He has no beginning and no end.

But the point is, if you can accept it as a given that God didn't require a creator, why should I have to accept it as a given that the universe required one?

Personally, I believe the universe itself is eternal and timeless, and has always existed. And science supports this. The universe *as we know it* may not have existed forever, but the raw materials did.

It's a basic law of physics: you can't make something out of nothing, nor can you make nothing out of something. All matter can do is change form. For example, if you burn a log, the log doesn't cease to exist--it only ceases to be wood, and turns into ash, carbon, gas, etc. If sodium and chloride bond, they cease to exist as separate elements--but salt is created. These are not "accidents," nor do they involve supernatural intervention.<hr /></blockquote>Oh, somewhere in Heaven my Catholic daddy is going to be so proud of me. He told me this long ago.

That's all well and good. Science is great. If you think the universe has always been here - great.

But I challenge you - if you look at a blade of grass, and you take into account everything that provides its "grassiness", you have to realize it came from a seed.

So I ask - WHERE DID THE VERY FIRST GRASS SEED COME FROM?

**************************************

Take anatomy and physiology and you'll learn things that boggle the mind. You'll see how the human body works and you will just KNOW that not everything can be chalked up to evolutionary chance. That is just an impossibility in my book.

**moderator** · December 17th, 2005, 04:32 PM

Science and the Bible don?t necessarily disagree. My dad is a research scientist who believes in Creation, and many scientists are Christians. There is growing interest in this because if Christians believe in non-six-day creation (which many do, as human concepts of time did not yet exist during the six ?days?), the order of the animals in Genesis closely matches the theory of evolution scientists have come up with. This is not to say that Christians necessarily believe in evolution (especially since no real linked "in between" species have been unearthed, other than micro-evolved species (think wolf to dog, wild African cats to housecats)). Many scientists, even ones who are not Christians, now believe in what they have termed ?intelligent design,? especially since they believe that the "big bang" had to come from somewhere, and the chances of earth being able to sustain life are infinitesimal. What is "intelligent design?" A creator. That's right . . . nowadays even some (many?) non-Christian scientists think there was a master creator at work in the creation of the universe.

My dad teaches a course about this at college, and I wanted to take the course but thought it might be too embarrassing to have my father as my prof. [img]redface.gif[/img] Nevertheless, I do pick up a lot at dinner table conversations and find it to be a very fascinating topic. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ December 17, 2005 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Melissa ]

vor · December 17th, 2005, 06:39 PM

[quote]Originally posted by AGCrayZee:
[QUOTE]But I challenge you - if you look at a blade of grass, and you take into account everything that provides its "grassiness", you have to realize it came from a seed.

So I ask - WHERE DID THE VERY FIRST GRASS SEED COME FROM?

I have absolutely no idea where the first grass seed came from.

But I don't find "God created everything" a sufficient or satisfying answer. That's NOT an answer; it's just displacing the question of the universe's birth with the mystery of "God."

Take anatomy and physiology and you'll learn things that boggle the mind. You'll see how the human body works and you will just KNOW that not everything can be chalked up to evolutionary chance. That is just an impossibility in my book.

I would like to let you know that your statement here comes across as rather condescending, as if you are implying I could not possibly be educated, or have studied anatomy and physiology, because I don't believe in a conventional "God" figure. I am not sure if you intended that or not.

If your studies in science have bolstered your religious beliefs, that's fine for you. There are many biologists/scientists whose faith has only been strengthened by their studies. However, there are also many who *doubt* religious concepts all the more because of their studies (Richard Dawkins, author of The Blind Watchmaker, is the first that comes to mind).

While you may find it impossible to believe our world came to be "by accident"--and by the way, I am SO tired of the assumption that there's only two options, either 1) God created everything, or 2) it happened "by accident"--others, including myself, find it impossible to believe that a Loving Heavenly Creator God would create cancer, multiple sclerosis, and myriads of other horrible diseases to inflict on the innocent.

You can say "He has his reasons, and we don't understand them," but that, to me, is again "answering" a question with a question. Doesn't fly.

I agree that many things about our world are mind-boggling in their complexity, strength, and beauty. But as for me, I'm content to admire and celebrate those things themselves, and don't feel any need to worship an entity that created them instead.

**StarTrekCaptain** · December 17th, 2005, 08:44 PM

"I agree that many things about our world are mind-boggling in their complexity, strength, and beauty. But as for me, I'm content to admire and celebrate those things themselves, and don't feel any need to worship an entity that created them instead."

This is kinda sad to me because this is what Christians have been fighting against for years- people choosing to worship the Creation instead of the Creator.

"You can say "He has his reasons, and we don't understand them," but that, to me, is again "answering" a question with a question. Doesn't fly."

But it's GOD. How are we supposed to understand most of what He thinks and says? He's God and we're just people. We can read the Bible and take what we can get form it, but we'll never truly understand God until we meet Him in heaven. That's the point of having faith. We don't alwyas have reasons but we don't need them either, because we know God and we trust Him.

Oh, and the part you said about cancer and other diseases and stuff, well God didn't create those at first. The world was perfect until God gave man free will, and man chose not to follow God, so sin came into the world- when sin is in the world then bad things happen. Diseases are in the world because it is no longer perfect and free from sin.
I'm not saying that people who are bad will get diseases lol, that's not it- the point is, good people can get hurt, good people get diseases too because there is sin in this world and sin affects everybody. Everybody hurts from sin, it doesn't matter if you're good or bad, you can still get diseases because the world is no longer perfect.

[ December 17, 2005 04:47 PM: Message edited by: StarTrekCaptain ]

vor · December 17th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by StarTrekCaptain:
"Oh, and the part you said about cancer and other diseases and stuff, well God didn't create those at first. The world was perfect until God gave man free will, and man chose not to follow God, so sin came into the world- when sin is in the world then bad things happen. Diseases are in the world because it is no longer perfect and free from sin.
[ December 17, 2005 04:47 PM: Message edited by: StarTrekCaptain ]

If the biblical God had the power to keep the world free of disease, pain, and ugliness, and he chose instead to bring it into the world only because a human disobeyed an arbitrary order--then, frankly, I don't have a whole lot of respect for the guy. (or gal. or non-gendered entity. or whatever)

I know some of you may find this blasphemous--and it's truly, truly not my intention to offend anyone or their religious beliefs. But I look at the actions of the biblical God, and you know what? They make me want to strive to be *nothing* like Him. They make me proud to have sounder morals than He appears to.

I don't accept that he's GOD, sacred, and I have no right to question him. Telling me to just "have faith" is simply not enough for me.

But--once again!--we could go around in circles on this faith thing forever. You have it, I don't, and I think we're both happy with what we've got! I find the debate interesting, though.

----------------------------------------------
"The kind of God
Who's so insecure that he needs to send me to h*ell
Is the kind of God
Who'd probably get a kick out of damning all the Christians as well"

--Dan Barker, "You Can't Win
with Original Sin"

**cebula_2005** · December 17th, 2005, 11:47 PM

God is perfect and good and love. I only wish I could be half as good as He is.

monimarine · December 18th, 2005, 02:40 AM

The AG I Can promotion was only slated to run for one year, so it's not ending because of the backlash, it's time is up.

I didn't support the boycott because AG stated that the proceeds were going towards three specific things that were not related to abortion or homosexuality, which is what the protest groups thought were the main points about the campaign.

**SweetSam** · December 18th, 2005, 04:13 PM

I don't really have the money to spend at AG currently, but I think I'm going to buy all my items on Ebay in order to get Pleasant Company items when I do have the cash.

I think Pleasant Company made better quality items, and I don't like how the historicals don't seem to be the focus with AG (in my opinion at least).

So I guess I'm boycotting for quality reasons and because I don't like the direction AG is headed. Plus, it irks me that the same company that sells Barbie (with her unrealistic dimensions) also sells a wholesome, educational line like AG.

Thread: Boycott AG? For or Against and why...

Thread Tools

Display

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions